This guy made billions from just 3 stocks (Here's how)
00:00:00Sam, we've been doing it all wrong. Thiswhole business thing,>> this building thing, we've been doing itall wrong.See, we thought you have to build aproduct. That product has to dosomething, has to add value, solve aproblem. And here I will read you thistweet. This is from Next to TV. Theysay, "Dopine websites are the new trendin South Korea. These services let usersendlessly browse food delivery menus,read reviews, fill their shopping carts,and even track their shipment. But theonly catch, none of it's real. You'renot really placing an order foranything. There are also virtual smokebreaks where you can join anonymouspeople in chat rooms to recreate thefeeling of taking a smoke break withouthaving to smoke a cigarette. The idea issimple. Give people the familiardopamine hit without them having toactually spend any money, leave thehouse, smoke, or do anything else alongthose habits. And these are becomingincredibly popular in South Koreaapparently.>> Is this the same country that's having amassive birth rate issue?>> Unrelated.>> It checks out if they're going to createvirtual smoke groups and fake buy stuff.What the heck, guys?>> So, the the trend started, you know,this year and it's basically Korean GenZ. They sort of realized
00:01:15that a lot ofthe fun in online shopping is justbrowsing. It's just putting things inthe cart, hitting checkout. You know,getting the actual product is, you know,sure that maybe that that adds somevalue, but there's a lot of fun in justthe other side of it. And so, you cansee uh here I can pull one of them up.Let me open. And so, this is a appcalled Food Never Comes. [laughter]And uh All right. So, check this out.So, you open up the app and you couldselect rabbit or turtle delivery. So,fast or slow. Oh, do you want to youwant should we pay for fast or slow?>> I guess we should pay for fast. I wantto get it. I want to get my fix.>> Let's treat ourselves. Okay. So, nowthere's a fried chicken restaurant. So,we can have the half and half crispychicken. The cheese balls. Got to gowith the cheese balls. Maybe the soyglazed chicken. We'll go spicy. We'lladd a cola. Add to cart. And then we cango ahead. We could check out. We put inour info here. And then we could watchthis delivery make its way to our house.Never actually come. And uh that's it.It's the blue balls of ofentrepreneurship. Sam, are you in or areyou out?>> Dude, how can the this group of peoplewho have brought us such amazing thingslike the Kia Tellyide or Samsung>> K-pop demon hunters?>> Yeah.
00:02:30Like go and do something sostupid. They're the Koreans. You guysreally are like the barbell strategy oflife. They're bringing us such amazingwonderful goodness and such silliness. II guess I don't get this. Why are peopledoing this? On behalf of our huge, I'msure South Korean followership, I willdefend this by posting a picture of theWhite House this weekend where there wasa giant motorcycle a motorcycle doing abackflip in front of the White House inpreparation for UFC 250 to celebrate thebirth of America. The two dudes in theirunderwear beating each other up in theWhite House lawn.>> Yeah. You don't think that a fist fighton the White House lawn is appropriate?[laughter]an organized fist fight>> where a Frenchman beats up a Brazilian.>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Dude,>> look, I didn't say that we we both can'tbe stupid. I'm just saying that this isthis is wild. Are these things actuallypopular?>> No, I can't tell. I So, obviously, thismakes for an amazing headline. There'salso a reason that I open up the showwith it cuz it's just funny to talkabout and make fun of.>> But are there there's not a lot ofKorean people on Twitter, so they can'texactly we can't exactly refute this. Itfeel it feels like like Japan. It feelslike Japan and America have likeseparate internets. Like have you evergone to like a Japanese website? Likelike when I It's kind of challenging touse
00:03:45obviously just even if it's justtranslated, it's still like totallyseparate and it's quite hard. And solike are there any like proper Koreanpeople on Twitter to refute the story orcan we just make up falsehoods aboutlike>> I think we just make it up. It's likethe good version of like the HunterBiden laptop story is the South Koreanfake fake Door Dash story. Have you everstudied like eastern internet?[laughter] You know, people study likeeastern philosophy. Have you everstudied eastern internet? [snorts]>> Yeah, like I've uh Masa Sun um fromSawbank. I believe he's a Korean guy wholives in Japan or is he Japanese wholives in Korea? Anyway, yeah, I'vestudied him and then I've studied likesome of the Chinese websites or thesuper apps. They're like so like megathat it's quite hard to understand whatthey're about. Yeah, there's so manycrazy um apps and sites. So that so justfor example, I remember when we werelooking into live streaming. So my firstcompany uh that sold Bibo, it was in thelive streaming space. We sold Twitch,which is the the big American player,but live streaming is far more advancedin Asia than it is in the West. And ifyou go look at like I forgot which onesit was y.com or whatever there was awhole bunch of these where you would seesomebody on video and then horizontallyfrom right to left streaming across thescreen
00:05:00would just be the entire chat andit was the most bizarre experience evercuz you would see that 7,000 people arewatching this girl eat noodles whiletext flies across the screen and peopleare spending thousands of dollarssending her virtual roses. And we werelooking at this studying it like youknow it's like uh you know when youstudy like a tribe and you're like sothey they just eat it and they were justlike yeah this is what this is exactlywhat they do. And then we tried torecreate as many of those variables aswe could because these sites wereincredibly popular.>> Isn't there uh isn't there one where Ilike where it's like fat people eating.It's like bang bang or is is this isn'tthis like a>> bang? They don't need to be fat. Oh, Ithought there was one guy like namedNico Avocado or something like that.>> He got really fat doing it and then helost a lot of weight and came back. He'skind of a weird guy. Um, but yeah, themukbang is basically watching otherpeople eat. Just like you watch otherpeople play video games, you watch otherpeople play basketball. Turns out peoplewant to watch other people eat and theylike having that high definition soundwatching them slurp and>> I get joy from that by the way. I alwaysI I buy candy and sweets that I want toeat for other people and I just likeI'll hand it to them>> people.>> Yeah. I'll hand it to them. I'm like,"Eat it.
00:06:16Tell me tell me how it feels."Like I definitely can get likesecondhand like sugar highs from otherpeople. [laughter]>> Okay. So, you're in. So, we started outand now and now you're in. Dude, there'sthis whole genre of Indian barbers whoshave people's heads who have dandruffand you could like it's like the oddlysatisfying of like, oh, we found it.Let's wipe it off the head.[laughter]>> Yeah, the oddly satisfying stuff iscrazy. There's other uh sites that Ithink are like the kind of the currenttrend of like what's big in the eastthat's not yet big in the west. So, sobefore there was live streaming, thatwas obviously a huge one. Mobile gaming.So, internationally, uh the biggest mostpopular games were all on your phone.there weren't Xbox, PlayStation thatthere really didn't have like bigconsole or PC culture and so games likeuh Freefire or PUBG Mobile were huge andthen Fortnite became the the version ofthat in the US soon after. And so youcould sort of see these trends movingover. Live shopping has been huge inAsia for a long time. Now whatnot is theUS equivalent of live shopping worth $10billion. And so you can kind of look forthese products that are over there andtry to see when and how will theytranslate. So right now the big one iswe've talked about this before but theshort drama. So so serial
00:07:31drama. Sobasically it's Netflix but you watch onyour phone vertically. Each episode islike 30 to 60 seconds and it's basicallysoap operas of all different types ofgenres that people get incrediblyaddicted to. Huge in Asia. Uh so hu hugein kind of like the China, Japan, Koreaarea. Now getting big in India. Only amatter of time till it's also just asbig in the US is my my guess. I justpulled up these notes that I have from Ithink 2016. So there's this guy namedKevin Ryan. He's been on the podcast,friend of the pod. And uh he founded abunch of companies. The biggest onebeing MongoDB uh multi- tens of billionsof dollars uh company, but he alsofamously was the co-founder of BusinessInsider. And so I called him one timeand he like gave me some tips on likehow to start a media company because Ilike didn't know anything. And I emailedhim so many times that he relented. AndI have these notes and I I somethingalways stuck with me on this framework.So we saidon this show we have spent hours talkingto some of the best investors alive.Well lucky for you the team at HubSpotthey have pulled out the principles thatmatter most and turned it into a verysimple easyto read wealth guide. It's 35
00:08:46principles from the top investors. We'retalking guys who have been on the podlike Howard Marx, Manish Pbry, MorganHowell, Kathy Wood, and a ton others.So, these are all their frameworks,their mental models, their rules.Basically, how to play the long game andhow to avoid ruin. You can get it in thelink below.He didn't he didn't use all these exactwords. This is me like typing. This isbefore granola existed. So, he goes umhe's like, "The business insiderstrategy is sort of what Honda did in1985 versus General Motors." He waslike, he didn't say this, but this is mynotes. [clears throat]Start with shitty quality and gettraffic to our website and improve. [ __ ]quality, but we'll improve. Like, how[laughter]>> he said it in his old hands, inspiringall of his employees. [laughter]>> He did he didn't say it that way, but hewas like, we're he said um like Honda in1985 versus GM. Honda was consideredsort of a joke. GM cars were these likebig like heavy duty vehicles that made abig thunk when you like shut the doorand Hondas were like rinky dink. But thedifference is is that uh with Honda aswell as with Business Insider, thequality uh of car that they were makingincreased but their cost they stayed thesame which is why
00:10:01Honda eventually won.And Business Insider we make content alot cheaper than Wall Street Journal butwe think that our quality is just goingto continue to rise. And that was likehis whole strategy. And I always thoughtthat was really interesting. I thoughtthat was a a really cool analogy, whichis you can start like kind of like so soand just slowly get better while keepingyour cost the same. And he alwaysreferenced he referenced in our call hewas like Honda did this, Toyota didthis. And I started thinking about thisand I've always thought about this likeum strategy that a lot of Asiancompanies did. If you remember, do youdo you know TCL TVs?>> I've never even heard of that. No. T. SoTCL, if you were to go on Amazon 6 yearsago and buy a TCL TV, they were theworst. They were like pretty maybe 10years ago, they were junky TVs, but youget a 65 in flat screen TV for likeliterally $200. And over I'm like agadget nerd. And so over time, TCL isnow a baller TV company and you couldstill get a 65 in highest def fanciestTV for $200. It's I don't even know howthis is possible. And I've alwaysthought about this strategy of likeAsian businesses and I've noticed Idon't know if it's particularly an Asianthing or because I he referred to Asiancar companies now I always think of itthat way. They'll offer something wherelike the quality is so so but just goodenough but
00:11:16over time like it's sort oflike Hyundai or Kia or Genesis likeparticularly you know Asian carcompanies that's how I think of them isthey're kind of like crappy at first butthey just get so much better and thenthe prices stay the same. What I likeabout this is it's the opposite of thenormal white guy referencing Asianculture thing where normally we takethese like amazing Zen practices. We'relike the Japanese use the word kaizenfor the continuous pursuit of perfectionand that's what we do here at ourcompany or it's like wabishabi thebeauty and imperfection. It's likealways like these like high and mightythings that like we're borrowing andhe's like we use the the termhuntification where you start with [ __ ]and it stays [ __ ] for quite a while buteventually the [ __ ] becomes a littleless shitty and that's what we do.[laughter]>> It's like the first honest white guylike we give him award for like he'sdoing all of the like the tone and thehand gestures but he's just saying thetruth. [laughter]And we didn't stop there. We took the[ __ ] that we had and the year after justa little bit less shitty>> because they they don't know thedifference. [laughter]>> And we told[laughter]
00:12:33>> there should just be like a wholeservice just like honest businesstranslation, you know, like GoogleTranslate, but just like corporatetranslation. And it's like take anycompany, put their mission, values, andearnings calls into this the generatorand it just tells you the truth.>> Yeah, [laughter]that's so funny. Uh, one of the greats,Kevin Ryan, probably no longer a fan ofthe pie.>> No longer friend of the [laughter]>> former friend of the Kevin Ryan.
00:13:01>> Told you that in confidence, Sam. Um,[laughter]>> there was a statute of limitations onnotes, by the way. Uh, once it's been 10years, I could talk about it. So likeanything that happened it or you knowfrom pre 2016 I'm allowed to bring itup.>> All right. So I was nerding out onsomething kind of related. So I'll segueto that. So um you were talking abouthow for the TVs thing they're like theycharge 200 bucks and at first it's kindof a shitty TV but eventually it's kindof a great TV but still for 200 buckswhich is different than I would say mostcompanies which assume you know overtime the goal is to raise our pricesincrease our margins increase ourprofits. So I was studying this investorcalled Nick Sleep and the short versionfor those who weren't there.>> Ever since you brought him up, I've beenon him.>> Yeah. So you know his story in short ishe was an investor basically raisedmoney was an investor about 15 yearsaverage more than 20% compoundingbillions of dollars. He won the gameshut down the fund and moved on. Andmost of the fund was concentrated inthree positions Costco, Amazon andBerskshire Hathway. For the longestperiod of time he was just holdingthose. And so the interesting partisn't, oh wow, here's a guy who pickedright. You know, it's kind of like, oh,I'm the lot I'm interviewing a lotterywinner to ask how they how they guessedthe numbers. Like this is his daughter'sbirthday. It's not not
00:14:16really that. It'sif you ask what is Nick Leap'sphilosophy, his core investing strategy.He had this idea of consumer surplus. Sohis his main realization was look,there's many ways to invest. Uh youcould do what Buffett and Ben Grahamwere trying to do which is buy a companythat's trading for less than it's worthor you could look at some of thesecompanies that today look overvaluedlike Amazon at that time in you know the2000s is like wow this thing's got acrazy price to earnings ratio and herealized that the best predictor oflong-term value for him was somethingthat he called shared scale economies.All right so what do those mean? Soscale economies is usually when let'ssay you're Amazon, you have a largecustomer base, you're able to openwarehouses in a bunch of differentplaces and you get what's calledeconomies of scale, which is that overtime your cost to serve each additionalcustomer go down because you've you'reserving so many customers, you're ableto like almost like amortize the theinvestment cost across a large customerbase. Now what he what Nick Sleepidentified was called shared uh economysales.>> Was that a word that he did he make thisup?>> Yeah. So he I don't know if he made itif he invented it, but he was the onewho really>> Yeah. he really bet on it and he reallylike made it the foundation of hisinvesting strategy. So he realized likelet's take Costco.>> So Costco's goal is to basically
00:15:32geteconomies of scale, meaning they buy inbulk. They have tons of locations. Sothey have a lot of pricing power.They're able to buy things in bulk atcheap prices. And instead of what mostretailers do, which is they buywholesale, sell retail, right? They buycheap and they sell it at a markup.Costco's goal was to make the markup assmall as it could and pass all of thesavings of buying in bulk to thecustomer. So he did the math and herealized like, okay, let's say that aCostco membershipcosts $100. Let's just use roundnumbers, right? And he realized that iffor the average person who shopsgroceries at Costco, they're gonna saveon their grocery bill, let's call it$1,000 a year on just by buying Costcobecause Costco's passing on all thosesavings of buying in bulk to thecustomer. So the customer saves $1,000.They spend $100. And so the surplus thatthey they've generated this $1,000surplus and then they're only charging$100 for it's a no-brainer proposition.and they basically take the So what whathappens is instead of increasing theirprices and increasing their theirprofits and increasing the money totheir shareholders, they pass theprofits to the customer which makes ajuicier value proposition which attractsmore customers
00:16:47which gives them morescale which allows them to create evenmore surplus. And so what he realizedwas that the companies that would dothis that would start early on and passon the the savings to the customer, theywould run away from the competitionbecause they would have such a such ajuicy value proposition, they wouldbuild so much trust with customers andhave such a incredible offer to thecustomers that they would pick up allthe customers. And so Costco forexample, they make no money essentiallyon any of the food that they sell. Theymake all their money on the membership,which is like pure profit is themembership uh cost.>> How much um so I'm just looking this I Iknew that they were it was a ballerstock. It does 300 billion a year insales. How much in uh subscription inthe membership sales? Do you know?>> Five billion.>> Five billion. Yeah. So So what herealized at that time was he said, "Wow,everybody just looks at I think let'sjust say it was a billion dollars atthat time." He's like, "When atraditional analyst will look at thiscompany, they'll just see a billiondollars of profit. But what I see is 5billion of surplus that they're passingon. And they passed on 4 billion lastyear, 5 billion this year. It'll be 7billion next year, 10 billion the nextyear, and they're just going to keeppassing on so much surplus that it'sgoing to run away from the competition,and it'll create so much trust and somuch loyalty that they'll never have anyproblems attracting customers.
00:18:03And so,he's like, that's an invisible metricthat doesn't show up on the balancesheet. It doesn't show up on the P&L.You have to sort of manually calculatethe shared economies of scale, how muchof the surplus they're giving to thecustomers. And if you track the growthrate of that the you what you want iscompanies where that growth rate isincreasing. He said Amazon was the sameway for 20 years. Bezos basically didnot try to extract profits. He justreinvested all the capital to givepeople wider selection, faster shipping,and lower prices. And he realized thatevery year they're investing more moneyin giving people wider selection, fastershipping, and lower prices. The threethings that consumers care about themost. And they have the Prime membershipjust like the Costco membership. And sohe invested heavily in that. And I justthought, "Oh, wow. This is like a prettybrilliant insight, a way a way oflooking at businesses that I've neverthought about.">> Yeah, that's actually it sounds stupid,but that's sort of like a I don't knowif I need a lesser word, but agroundbreaking like stat, you know,that's that's like a that's actuallyvery interesting. I've never ever haveheard of a company that measures thatlike just how much savings we arepassing on to you. That's prettyinteresting. But who else does that? Youyou have to do it with a company that'shuge and where mass appeal or mass andthen you need like a membership, right?like a prime thing.>> Well, it doesn't have to necessarily bea membership. There's other ways to doit, but you
00:19:18know, the two biggestexamples he did was the membershipbecause it's the beautiful way tomonetize, right? It's like I'm going togive you so much value in the thingyou're buying that giving me a annual merecurring revenue membership is ano-brainer for you. And that's whatPrime is. That's what the Costcomembership is. And so, it worked outbeautifully for in those two cases. Butit's not it doesn't have to be that it'sjust that. So for example, like I wastalking to AI today and I was trying tosay like well what other study othercompanies if there's these thousandcompanies which other companies wouldNick Leap see as having a high surplusand how would he look at it right and soit's it's a AI is not great at doinganalysis like this but one of theexamples it brought up was uh was SpaceXand basically it's like look SpaceX isgoing to lower has been it has alreadylowered the cost to orbit by 100x soit's it's reduced its cost by 100x butit didn't keep the prices to thegovernment or anybody else. It alsolowered it passed on the savings to thegovernment, which is why it now takeslike 80% of all payloads. It like ittook all of the the business. It tookall the market share by doing that. Andthey're trying to reduce another 100xand they're putting up all thesesatellites and they're trying to againpass the the the savings on to to thesubscribers for the for Starlinkinternet. And so here you're going to
00:20:33have again recurring annual membership,a no-brainer value proposition to a massmarket of people. Everybody on Earthwants the internet. And they are gettingeconomies of scale because as theyimprove their their uh launch costs andtheir launch rates, they're not going toraise prices. They're going to pass iton and they're going to create amembership. So it's like SpaceX would bein a weird way like again same thing asAmazon today looked at as highlyovervalued but potentially undervaluedif you if you could figure out how tomeasure the surplus and see that therate of the surplus was growing everyyear. Um you it might look like one ofthose businesses. Now I'm not again I'ma noob at this stuff. So like I'm justsharing kind of like my beginner mylearnings with this just with you. I'mnot saying that this is is or is not thecase. It's not financial advice oranything like that. But I do find thisidea to be pretty interesting. It's anidea I hadn't really heard popularizedbefore.>> This guy is so interesting to me. He'she's got everything that I want. And uh>> does he have like long hair, nicecalves?>> Yeah. Like he you Google his name,beautiful he's got a beautiful set ofhair and only one photo. If you Googlehim, it's the same head shot used foreverything.>> Nick Sleep, come on the podcast. I mean,how many times are you going to let mepodcast uh make out with you before youjust finally get on here? Okay.
00:21:48>> Yeah. Do you want to break decades ofbeing anonymous?Come on.>> Uh there's literally only one photo ofthem. I'm for real. Um>> it's like uh I got to this hotel and Ipaid likedisgusting amount of buddy, but they hadfree snacks when I walked in and I waslike honestly love this place. Greatvalue. They gave me this they gave melike, you know, cake pops for free whenwe walked in. This is incredible. Mykids are so happy. And I feel likethat's our pitch to Nick Leap. It'slike, yes, you've been anonymous for 20years and you value your privacy andyou've turned down uh, you know, everyopportunity under the sun, but we gotpeanuts and snacks. If you want to comeon our pod, it'll [laughter] be great.>> He uh he's 58 years old. He's he's notold. This guy's cool. There's an articleum called How to Retire at 45 and it'sabout him. So, I guess he's taking iteasy. But, I would love to have this guyon. That would be so fascinating. Himand Paul Graham. just there's somethingso mysterious about people who who claimuh I've had enough and they like optout. I I think that's interesting. Um>> well, one of the other takeaways realquick is you only need one or two,forget the word insight, I'll call itsecrets in the Peter Teal terms, right?You only really need to understand oneor two secrets in your lifetime tobecome fabulously rich. And this is one
00:23:03of them. For example, I think Peter Tealdid this with uh network effectbusinesses. So understanding you knowPayPal, Facebook early on and justunderstanding like the power of anetwork effect and how unbreakable thosethose monopolies become. And then youknow the other uh you know anotherexample is you know Buffett for examplehe doesn't invest in network effect techcompanies or or anything like this. Whathe looks at is what's not going tochange and he's basically like the moatwhich is the pricing power. So you hegives an example of I don't know if yous saw this exchange but Elon was talkingabout how lame moes are. He's like a Idon't like the idea of moes. If you needa moat, that's lame. You should beinnovating faster than everybody else.That's how you win. If you think a moatis going to protect you, you know,that's not what protects you. Fastinnovation protects you. This is Elon.>> You're like, you're like, Elon, I don'tthink the word moat means what you thinkit means. Uh [laughter] cuz youdefinitely have a moat.>> Buffett replied and he was like, I don'tknow. He's like, let's say you go to acorner store and you ask for a Snickersand they say, hey, I got a Musk bar forfor 10 cents less. He goes, I don'tthink anyone's buying the Musk bar. Andhe's like, "In fact, if you go testthis, if if one place doesn't have aSnickers and they have an unbranded,unlabeled um chocolate bar with withpeanuts in it, but the place across thestreet has a Snickers bar, the customerwill just walk across the street and gobuy a Snickers."
00:24:18And he's like, "So,yeah." He's like, "I I look forCoca-Cola, Snickers, you know, Gillette,American Express. I look for thesebrands and franchiseswhere you'd have to pay someone toswitch and even then they they wouldn'twant to." Um, he's like he's like thatthat was his core insight of like youjust need to find these great Americanfranchises and invest in them.>> Did you see I want to bring up a personwho we talked about somewhat recentlybut we didn't dive into, but reallyquick. Did you listen to the LloydBlankfine interview that we did that Idid with uh and he talked about like hisfamily finances and stuff like that?>> No, I only I've I've listened to thefirst five minutes but I'm on vacationso I hadn't hadn't had time to like getmy phone and uh and listen to it. Whywhat what did he say about his family?By the way, did you know this guybefore? Am I dumb? I never heard of thisperson. And then you were like I knew ofhim all about this guy suddenly.>> Well, when you and I were younger,probably in high school, uh that waslike his peak prime. And so like duringthe>> So you knew him back then or only now?>> I I knew him as a famous like he waslike the face of banking. He was likethe Jamie Diamond of '08 particularlywhen um>> Occupy Wall Street was a thing. He waslike the face of evil because like thename Goldman is like and and and therewas this funny
00:25:33line that he told mewhere he was like, "Yeah, they likeprotested outside of my house andeverything." And I was like, "How doesthat feel?" He's like, "Well, twothings. Like one, like go and try to geta mortgage from Goldman. Like youcan't." So like I didn't cause themortgage crisis, so I don't know whythey were so angry at me. And second ofall, they, you know, were campingoutside of my house protesting, but likethat's a door metaphor.[laughter]He's like, I shouted out from the windowon the fifth fifth balcony in my house.>> We wouldn't give you a mortgage even ifyou tried. [laughter]That didn't seem to help.>> No, dude. He was super likable. He wasso charming and charismatic. Basically,Lloyd is um I like you could look up hiscareer earnings at Goldman because whenGoldman went public, he was like 43years old. And I think at that time hishe told me he told me uh his shares wereworth like $160 million. And this waswhen he was 42. He's 72 I think now. So30 years ago. And then he the course ofhis ear his earnings are all publicwhile they it was public. And it wasmany many many hundreds of millions ofdollars a year. And so presumably Iwould have to imagine he's worth liketwo billion plus. but he grew up in apoor Brooklyn family and he somehow andhe's very self-deprecating. His fatherwas a post office worker. His mother, I
00:26:48think, was a stay-at-home mom. He's likea pretty like he calls himself thebluecollar CEO. And he was like, "Iwasn't even that smart, but somehow Igot into Harvard and they paid for myschool." And he's like, "One time when Iwent to Harvard, I had to go to the likethe office or whatever they call it, thethe financial aid." He was like, "Idon't have any money to eat. Like, can Iplease have money?" And they're like,they gave me $500 back then and it likechanged my life because I had food. Andso he goes to Harvard and he uh gets ajob as a lawyer. He's like, this sucks.I don't want to do this. And so he getsa job at a rag tag like subsidiary ofGoldman. And he's like, I don't evenknow what Goldman is. I don't know whatbanking is, but they thought that I wasthis like hard-nosed bluecollar guy whowent to Harvard. And they're like, youcheck the boxes. Because he um was acommodities trader at this little likeragtag group, which at the time wasconsidered a very lowbrow thing. And sohe slowly over the course of many yearsworked his way up to eventually becomepartner and then CEO of Goldman. Andwhen he was in my office, he had thisvery bluecollar vibe where I could tellthat he it was it felt very authentic.He like looked me in the eye and likeknew how to like riff on like sillystuff, but also I'm like, "Dude, you'relike acquaintances with Putin." Uh likeyou know, like he's like like I couldsee my>> in your phone as Puty Putty call.>> Yeah. [laughter]Like I could see how this guy ischarming
00:28:04and how he worked his way tothe top. And can you imagine being theshark in the sharks? Like how how muchhow insane it is to work your way up atGoldman amongst all the sharks andbecome the CEO? Can you what does thateven take? Like that's sort ofmind-boggling level of difficulty. LikeI know people that that have made moremoney just building a company, butthat's actually not as hard as playingthe the the like corporate game insideGoldman and rising up amongst all thosekind of like corporate sharks. He he'swild, but he he came off I like duringthe podcast I told him I'm like, "Man,you are making Goldman seem likable,which like is not easy. Like you'remaking it seem relatable and likable.That's a very hard thing to do." And forsome reason after talking to you, I'mlike, "Oh, I can do this even thoughobviously I can't." He told this story.I I asked him about personal finances. Iwas like, hey, who how does yourpersonal finances work? Because he toldthe story about how he grew up poor andhe's still cheap. He was like, I buy theis there like a cheaper tier of Netflixthat has ads? He's like, I won't evenpay for that. Um I do the cheap onebecause there's something about it thatlike because I grew up poor, it stillbothers me. He was like when I uh he hesaid um I I think he said 80% of his networth is in public equities of which 90%of that 80% something like that he stillday
00:29:19trades. And he was like I day trade.I'm obsessed with it. I love the game somuch and I want to check my phone allthe time but like when I do research ondifferent stocks I'll get to like um aBloomberg publication or Wall StreetJournal or something like that and Idon't buy the subscriptions because likeit kind of hurts me to like pay for it.And I just thought that was incrediblyfascinating to hear like how abillionaire manages their finances.>> How a billionaire mismanages hisfinances is what I heard.>> Well, he did the right thing.>> None of that makes any sense. [laughter]>> The the the top>> I wasn't there so I could talk [ __ ] IfI was there, I would also be likeblushing and saying how great he is.But, you know, just hearing it from theoutside just to be the outsider for asecond. You're day trading a billiondollars while not paying for Netflix cuzyou you're cheap. Like I don't evenunderstand what you're talking you don'tpay for for for you know premium news.>> The point being>> it's not a logical thing but it was likehe was kind of like saying like here'sall like how I messed up just like theaverage Joe.>> And uh it was so fascinating. And at theend of the interview did I tell you whatI try to do with him? I was like heylike I'm I have this like Instagram. Doyou want me to like I was going to dothis>> secret handshake. Well, I was like, I Iwas like, I have an idea. Like, um, Ican like act like I'm reviewing yourbook, and I'll just be like,
00:30:34ah, screwit. I'll just bring Lloyd in. Lloyd,just tell him what your book's about,will you? And he was like, he goes, I'mtoo old for that stuff. I'm not actingcute on Instagram. [laughter]>> That's the most likable thing you saidso far about him.>> I was like, oh Lloyd, it's not like>> none of the like billionaires, they'rejust like us. But just that one of like,I'm not going to do that.>> I [laughter] was like, I wouldn'tdescribe it as cute. I mean, it is cute,but that's a it's more like fun. Youdon't like fun? He goes like, "That'stoo cute, dude. I'm not doing that." AndI [laughter] was like,>> "Yes, sir.>> I'll walk you through the elevator."[laughter]>> Yeah,>> it was pretty good. But he wasfascinating. Um, and then another guywho we had um a guy on the other name,Barry, who talked about DavidRubenstein. Had you ever heard of himbefore David or Barry told you about him>> from Carile Group?>> Yeah. Do you know anything about thisguy?>> Yeah. uh only only surface level stuff.Yeah.>> I I want to fill you in on a little bitabout a story because I've actuallyalways been a fan of his, but I mostlyknew him as an author of history books,not particularly of like a business guy.And um I was researching him. It'spretty fascinating. And he's kind oflike my new man crush a little bit. Hekind of like got his foot in the doorbecause when he was in his 20s and 30s,he uh
00:31:49he was a lawyer, but he quit beinga lawyer because he wanted to work forthe Jimmy Carter administration. and helike made a joke where he was like whenI joined Jimmy Carter he was up by like31 points and then he eventually won byone point and Jimmy Carter went to Davidand was like so what contributions didyou make? Uh and so he like had likethis kind of like funny umself-deprecating humor, but he likeworked for Jimmy Carter and iteventually Jimmy Carter was a one-termpresident. He doesn't get it re-elected.So David Rubenstein, he's 31 years old.He's like, "Well, what do I do now?" Andthere was this amazing article that Ifound written by Michael Lewis. youknow, Michael Lewis, the the famousauthor, he wrote this amazing article in1993called The Access Capitalist, and it's a10-page or so article written aboutDavid and it's from a while ago and andI love that. And he said um David gothis um start using what people arecalling the great Eskimo tax scam of1987.>> Tell me more.>> So, the story is is basically David hadthis amazing rolodex. He was reallywellconed in Washington DC. He was knownas being likable and like a really goodnetworker and reliable. And so he justlike knew a little bit of everyone. Andso he's out of work at the age of 31.He's like, "What do I do now?" And hehears about this like weird tax
00:33:04loopholewhere uh if you were a native of Alaska,you were given a certain amount of taxloss losses automatically. I I don'tknow why. I think it was like toincentivize people to live there. And sowhat he did is he organized a bunch ofbuyers and sellers. Meaning if youwanted you could they could sell $10million in tax write-offs to willingbuyers for $7 million in cash. And thusthe buyer got a reduced taxable incomeof $3 million. And David like heardabout this and he's like that'sinteresting. And so him and a couplefriends organized roughly $2 billion inthese like in like or in uh transactingthese tax losses. And after doing thatfor two or three years, they had madesomething like $20 million. And that'sthe money that they used 3 years laterto eventually start Carile Group, whichis now one of the largest PE firms inthe world. I believe they have $500billion uh in companies that they own.And David was like, I thought I had apretty good IQ myself, but I was seeinga lot of people make a lot more moneythan I was who I thought maybe weren'tas smart as me. And so I decided to trythis PE firm. And so he raises a littlebit of money, uses the money that theymade from the
00:34:19uh the the tax savingscam. Scam. Sorry. No longer. I guess hejust canceled his booking with us.[laughter]>> Scheme.>> Never friend of the pod.>> Sche. I meant to say scheme. It was coldoutside. him. It's the same scheme[laughter]and he used this thing and he started inthe PE business which at the time in the80s was like like just killing it likeit's felt like that's when all the bigPE firms were built because this idea ofa leverage buyout was brand new and sohe raised a little bit of money and helike did a couple deals. It didn'treally particularly work that well. Ithink he said his first deal that theytried to buy was a Mexican restaurantcalled Chi-Chi's. And he's like, "Yeah,like it wasn't going so hot." [laughter]>> He went from the Eskimos scam toChi-Chi, right?>> Yeah. He's like, "Not doing so hot." Butthen he had this idea where he was like,"Well, like I know everyone in DC and Iknow that like a lot of jobs in DC arepretty cyclical. Like after four years,you're like quit and you're like, "Whatdo I do?" And I know a bunch ofinteresting people. And I know thoseinteresting people know a bunch ofinteresting and powerful people, but youdon't want to like sell access to thesepeople. That would like be borderlineunethical and sometimes illegal. Andhe's like, well, what if I just like gotall of these like powerful people who nolonger have jobs at the government
00:35:34tocome and like work at this PE firm andwe start or when we start buyingcompanies where it would help to havelike friends in government so you canget meetings to like big powerfulcompanies. And so Carle eventuallyspecializes in defense contract stylecompanies. Um, and so that is sort ofhow it took off. But the moreinteresting part about all of this iswhat he's done while he was building thecompany. So he has like five or sixbooks, which is how I've met him or knowof him. So he's got a book called likethe American stories about like where hejust interviews mass um historians. He'sgot a book called How to Lead, theAmerican Experiment, How to Invest, TheHighest Calling, which is conversationsabout different presidents. He has ashow on Bloomberg called the DavidRubenstein Show. He's got u>> Yeah, that's what I've seen. Hisinterviews this amazing thing. Butlisten to this [ __ ] He owns all thisamazing stuff. He owns one of the um Ithink it's one of the last privatelyowned copies of the Magna Carta, whichis a historical one of the most likehistorical documents of all time for $21million. He bought it. He owns one ofthe last pieces uh one of the last uhbits of the Declaration of Independence.He owns a Lincoln signed EmancipationProclamation. He uh funded theWashington Monument when it needed toget rebuilt. He funded the LincolnMemorial when it needed to get rerebuilt. He funds all these amazingthings.
00:36:50So like the Kennedy Center hehelped do he helped produ he helpsproduce a lot of Ken Burns documentary.He funds them. He's just like this crazyguy that does all of this interestingstuff and and his side hustle isbasically like buying these documents,meeting the people who are like aroundthe documents, writing books about thedocuments, becoming bor on the board ofthe museum in which he loans thedocuments to and he just has this likecrazy like>> that's fascinating. I mean, that's anepic shutoerie board career, you knowwhat I mean? Like, just a little bit ofthis, a little bit of that. They workwell together. You know, he's kind oflike the white knight of Washington DC.I kind of love it, you know? Like I Ialways love people who are not sort ofonedimensional in the way they operate.You know, the onedimensional people Iappreciate for their laser focus andobsession, and I take inspiration fromit, but I don't take guidance from it.You know, I I take more guidance frompeople like this who I think have a moreinteresting, varied career. Personally,I I find that like just reallycompelling.>> I love this guy. Google or go to hisWikipedia page and like look at thethings that he's contributed to. I Imentioned just barely any of them, butit's like>> David Beckham's wisdom teeth. [laughter]We just play a game things, you know,two truths in a lie. Rubenstein'scollect
00:38:05collectibles.>> [laughter]>> Dude, it's a it's so awesome what hedoes and I just think that guys likethis are really cool and he's actuallycoming on the podcast um in August andum so you know, sorry Dave, I didn'tmean to I didn't mean to insult you if Igot any details wrong, but um>> he's coming on. Okay, I'm so excitednow. That's amazing.>> Yeah, it's amazing. I think that he'sbeen doing this kind of like ballergiving philanthropic stuff and likehistory stuff. I think he's been doingit along the way and not just like inthe end of his career, which I findreally fascinating. and he like makesthis joke where first of all he sayslike my whole shtick is I loveself-deprecating humor because itdisarms people and like he's kind oflike a a self-deprecating guy whichmakes him very likable but he was likeI'm not really like that good of aninvestor I just like work pretty hardand I know kind of everyone and I'mpretty good at connecting people and Ialso have really good business partnerswho helped me start carile and that'sone of the reasons why it's the way itis and I thought that was reallyfascinating.>> I like that a lot. It it also soundslike he had a, you know, a cool secondact to his career. Maybe a second and athird act uh to his career. Can I tellyou about a a business that I think isreally cool that is someone's secondact? And I think you know I think youknow the person but I I don't know howmuch time you spent thinking about thisbusiness. And so,
00:39:20um, the business isPSA,and PSA is, if you ever want to go buy aa rare, uh, you know, Charizard, well,you'll want to know the PSA grade ofthat card. And>> this guy on>> Yeah. So, Nat Turner bought thisbusiness. And Nat Turner, I think he Ithink his last company was like inhealthcare or something. He sold it toRo. And he's always been a nerd, acollector. and he raised some money andhe took private or he bought uh thiscompany. I think it's called Collector'sUniverse or something like that. Theyown PSA and I just found this categoryof business to be pretty fascinating.So, let me let me tell you a little bitabout this business. Here's here's oneway of of looking at it. So, it's abusiness that controls something like70% of its market. So, absolutelydominant in its market. They have $400million of orders just sitting in thequeue.>> Haven't even got to it yet. 400 million.>> What?>> If I'm wrong, we'll fire a researcher.But that's that's what we that's what wehave here.>> Cancel your cla subscription. [laughter]>> Don't give Claude a nasty talking to>> um basically they they just they'vedominated this space of uh of gradingcards. And if you
00:40:35think about what thatis, the broader category of problem thatthey solve is something called credencegoods. And so I was kind of nerding outon this and what a credence good isbasically it's a good that even afteryou've consumed it, even after you haveit, you still don't really know thequality of it. So like medical care is agood example. You have surgery. Oh,how'd you like your surgeon? I don'tknow. I have no idea. I have no way toassess the efficacy of my surgeon ifthey were if they were, you know, Icould probably tell if they're terrible,but I can't really tell the differencebetween good, great, and world class.And the same is true and same was truefor collectibles. So, let's say somebodyhad a original, I don't know, Sammy Sosarookie card and the big kind of home runboom was happening when him and MarkMcGuire were hitting a bunch of homeruns and people were buying up thesecards. And the problem, you know, theproblem uh without a third party, atrusted third party here is that one,you know, the owner says it's inexcellent condition and then they showit to a buyer and the buyer says, "Idon't know, it seems fair." and then thebuyer owns it, then he says it's mintcondition and there's ar all thisarguable uh and you don't and that'sjust the condition let alone is it evenauthentic. Is this real? Was thisactually a first edition? Is this asecond edition? Does this actually havethis? Does it have actually have that?And so you need third party trust inthese
00:41:50systems where there was nostructure. And so coins was like this,cards was like this, Pokemon cards,sports cards. And so there was this likeentire like industry of in of uhcollectors who were very passionate butit had no structure and it needed thirdparty trust and this exists in manyindustries. So for example if you evergo through an M&A process you'll have togo get a QoE or you'd have to get a athird party audit. you know, Deote,Ernston Young. Um, they built builtmulti-billion dollar businesses justdoing an attestation, just saying yes,this company's financials are sound sothat the seller and the buyer can do atrusted transaction because the buyerknows that they don't have to go andverify themselves that the the company'suh books are actually what they say theyare. And so attestation um credentiingthese are are huge businesses that arejust some of the most beautiful businessmodels because you become a basically atrust tax on an entire industry. Youdon't have to be the best buyer orseller. You don't have to own anything.It's super capital light. All you haveto do is become the trusted third partyand that's hard to do but once you do itit's an incredible position to be in.And I think what Nat Turner did buyingthis company is absolutely brilliant. Ithink they bought it for 800 900million. This is going to be amulti-billion dollar company because
00:43:06being the dominant market share andthere's a network effect, right? Like ifI have a card that I think is valuable,am I going to go to the third rategreater because I can save a little biton my on grading my card? No way. I'mgoing to go to PSA because if it's PSAcertified, PSA 10, that makes my cardmore valuable. And so the trust sort ofcompounds and it becomes the known unitof account on the street. just seeeverywhere you go. You're just going tokeep seeing PSA, which means when youneed to get your cards graded, PSA. Andthen they add it on top of grading. Theyhave a vault. So they store a millioncards in their vault cuz they'rebasically like, you know, a hybrid. It'slike, you know, one part Moody's wherethey're they're grading a asset class.And on the other side, they're Fort Knoxwhere they have this giant vault storinga billion dollars worth of cards orwhatever it is in their in their vaults>> with this business. So I'm just lookingit up. So, like it's calledcollectors.com now. It's like a it'slike a portfolio. I think they own likeum the ones you mentioned plus likethree or four other ones. And the likethey have this cool Jackie Robinson cardum like on their photos and it's createdby Topps Topps cards when I was a youknow I bought so many of those and Toppsis owned by fanaticsbecause it's not like a regulated
00:44:22thing.It's not like money or gold or anythinglike that. What's to stop fanatics frommaking more? Like it's not like alimited supply. Do you know what I mean?And it's not like it's not like>> is what stops them. So So yeah, it is alimited supply. If if TOPS can't betrusted to not flood the market withmore cards, people will stop buyingTOPS. The more supply there is, the lessvaluable each card is. So Topps has anincentive to control the supply tightlyto manipulate the supply artificially.And so Topps has an incentive to dothat. That's in line with the incentivesof the buyers and the holders cuz theywe need they need scarcity for this tobe valuable. And then PSA sits as alayer underneath both which basicallygrades and authenticates that this isthis is real. It's not a fake card andthat it's it's in good condition andit's valuable. And they also becausethey see so many cards, they know theabsolute scarcity. So they know how manyof these cards really are out therecirculating in the market. They know theliquidity of each card market. Sothere's like a there's like a market capfor like Charizards. There's a marketcap for uh Jackie Robinson cards cuzthey know how much how much liquiditythere is, how much circulating supply
00:45:37there is. They know the the relativevalue of a card because they know, wow,this is in mint condition versus this isin good condition. And so they're allkind of in cahoots with each other andin a way that is symbiotic.>> It's sort of like um have you ever likeseen how McDonald's does the the likeMonopoly game? Like the way the Monopolygame works is there's only like four ortwo winning pieces and like they guardit like kind of like crazy. Althoughthey were scammed once. There was awhole documentary they were like one oftheir like janitors.Yeah,>> they like took they like took them. Andso it would be very interesting likethey found the like the corner of theoffice where they kept them and they'relike, you know, yoink, it's mine. Iwould have loved to know like uh whenthey're making these cards, they mustknow in advance which ones potentiallymight be valuable and how they placethem in a pack cuz they're just like inlittle like bubblegum like $5 or fivepacks.>> Love to see that. Yeah,>> dude. Nat Turner was 35 when he didthis. So he had recently sold Flat IronHealth, I think that's what it wascalled, for I think like $2 billion in2018. So he must have sold so I think hesold one company>> for $40 million when he was 23. Yeah,>> it was an ad tech company. I forget whatit was called, but it was like a coolthing, whatever. He sold it for 40, Ithink 40 billion to Google. Then hestarts this cancer
00:46:52thing cuz someone inhis family I think uh was sick. And himand his partner, I think his partner isZach, they're like whipped smart. Likeyou could I could just tell by the wayZach is like kind of a feisty guy onlineand he like he's very sharp with hiswords where you see guys talk like thisand you're like that's not someone Iwant to argue with because not only ishe sharp, he's argumentative and hewon't back down.>> Yeah. He calls [ __ ] Yeah.>> Uh and so this guy Nat seems like alittle bit more of a nicer version ofthat but still has it. They he seems sosmart and wise at a very young age. I'vebeen very fascinated by him as well. AndI also thought when he did this I waslike huh? like it was like totally likeout of like that's and then you go tothe website and you're like this is thisis awesome. This is good for the soul.>> I mean the the math on the just thequeue alone, right? 14 million cards inthe queue. The p the cost to grade asingle card is, you know, 20 bucks onthe low end,000 plus on the high end.Let's call it like 30 bucks on average.So 14 million cards in the queue times30 bucks is 400 million sitting in thequeue. It's probably more if you if youthink the average cost of the card ishigher. And so that's if that's justtheir backlog. And by the way, this isone of the reasons he bought it wasbecause there was a one-year wait tograde cards. He's like, "Dude, this isterrible." And so he bought it to try tomodernize it with technology,
00:48:08withefficiency, with just intensity, and saylike, "We have to be able to do betterthan that, and I'll take it public againonce we've implemented like a more techforward approach to doing this becauseyou can't just have like a multi-yearbacklog and cards waiting to be graded."If you go to his Instagram, um it'scalled Nat Turner's Cards and it's justphotos of him showing off his cardcollection. Like he owns like what lookslike a Yao Ming rookie colle like arookie card and it's just him showing itoff. This is so cool. I wonder whattheir office is like.[laughter]
00:48:43This is awesome.>> The Yoing the Yoing rookie card just forsome reason got me. [laughter] Um yeah,I don't know. I don't know what theiroffice is like. I don't know whatthey're I don't know what any of it'slike. I just think this is kind of anamazing move. No, I've never met him. Iwould love to have him on. I think thiswould be really fun to to kind of I alsojust think>> this is my my sickness, my disease isanytime I discover a great businessmodel, the the envy in me is like, oo,how do I have one? I want one. And sothere's a question of like where elseare businesses like these or where couldyou build a business like these? And umyou know, my brain goes into like humancapital. So, like how do you like forexample, could I create a PSA gradingsystem for the top 1% of Ivy Leaguegraduates? Like, could I basically scorethem in some way?>> Could I do this for sports, right? Justlike they do with the combine and theNFL or NBA. Like, could you do this withyouth athletes? Like, basically, wherewould there be an aligned set ofincentives? the demand for it. They wantto have structure and a sort of ascoring system that can be trusted byall parties. And where's the economy bigenough? Like, you know, collectibles wasa big enough economy. I think it's likea whatever 10 billionish industry. Itwas big enough to support
00:50:00um the thesetypes of revenues. And so, I wonderwhere else you could build one of theselike third party trust, third partygrading systems,>> dude. But there's also I mean you'reyou're you're just scratching thesurface with different collectibles. Soif you want to get really nerdy uh I'mpart of like all these like vintagedenim communities online and people willpost. Yeah. Look for>> tons of us.>> If if you're going to say this guy who'sgot an Instagram who's 38 years olddedicated to his magic>> it was cool when he did it but when yousaid it I felt differently. [laughter]
00:50:34>> What? You don't like Lee Jeans from1947?>> [laughter]>> But but there are all these like theylike they do this for purses.>> Tell me when you when you appreciatedenim is it a like with wine you'retasting it with uh you know colog you'resmelling it. What what do you even do?Is it a feel? Is it a smell? Is it alook? What do you even look what what isthe what traits do you even evaluate?The the premium the best stuff or theworst stuff.>> There's all types of terminology. Youwant to look at the honeycombs, which isthe fading that's on the back of theknee. You want to look at the the backpatch near the butt. You want to see,does this patch, is it made out ofcardboard and paper, or is it made outof leather? And has it shrank a littlebit or not? You want to look at um arethe are the copper rivets just a littlebit green so you know it's real copper.Are they hidden or a famous pair like ofjeans like the Honus Wagner baseballcard or like the the rare Charizard?What is the most valuable collecteddenim?>> Yeah, so Levi Strauss was um invented umLevi Strauss was a man. He invented itin the 1800s to help uh gold miners inSan Francisco. So California and Nevada.And so if you can find it's called um uhbuckle back.
00:51:49So where they have thebuckle on the back to like it's calledlike a cinch. If you could find any ofthose in an old mine and assume that'sand you you can date it to the 1800s,those could be worth 20 grand. Um, andso collectors, particularly Japanesecollectors, love them. But then there'sthis whole subgenre of people who makereproductions, predominantly Asiancompanies, Japanese companies, they'rethe ones who make the best ones.Japanese replicate American [ __ ] Sogood. I'm wearing a pair right now ofLevis's.>> Stand up. Stand up. Let's see it. Let'ssee them.>> Look at this highrise.>> Give us a twirl. Give us a tour.>> It's highrise. Look at the roping. Theroping. This is beautiful roping fades.That's what you're looking for. You'relooking for that chain stitch hem.That's not made by a normal sewingmachine. That's made by a union machinethey don't even make anymore. You got tofind you got to find hemming that.>> Yeah. You got [laughter] to find thatcost $70 to get hemmed. Okay. You got tofind that good good and it's actuallyquite challenging. Um, and so like a>> What is the most expensive denimartifact art piece you've bought?>> Uh,>> are you are you a buyer or are you justa casual? Are you a voyer?>> I'm a I'm a voyer, but I like $500 forlike a a vintage jacket.>> Have you considered Have you beentempted to be like,
00:53:04"Ooh, 15 Sarah, dowe need that 15 grand? Do we need to goon vacation?">> I have. So there's like um like a 19 apair of 1947 Levis's that used like thegreen uh for the pockets because backthen we were like provisioning outmaterials and so every material wasgreen for the war and getting some ofthose real deal, you know, the real dealHolyfield ones. Yeah, I want thosestuff. But my point is is that there'sthis whole subreddit dedicated to twothings. One, looking at the fade of yourdenim. It's called uh Reddit raw fadesis what it's called. So it's raw denimthat fades nicely. I swear to God, it'sliterally just photos and photos. Itwould be hard to make this up.>> It's beautiful. But I do know there'speople who do this for other types ofclothing which are far more desirablelike purses.>> So, you're saying you could do niche PSAif you if you if you specialized indifferent uh clothing, you know,clothing and bags. Yeah.>> Denim is too niche. Uh but like uh>> but maybe there's a long tale of thingslike denim.>> Well, particularly handbags. I've seenthis all the time on handbags. uh likeon eBay and stuff. Like I bought my wifelike a vintage one for like two or threegrand on and I'm just trusting theperson's eBay profile that they havelike five out of five stars. But yeah,there's like a bunch of like coolcollectible like uh genres
00:54:20that arestill really uh primed for some of thisstuff.>> Yeah. So, by the way, like I know it'samazing that like a woman has decided tomarry me even though I'm still into thisstuff, but [laughter]>> we exist, guys.Oh my god. I Nat Turner. Um, obviouslywe are nerds as well. If you'd like tocome on, we would love to have>> Rubenstein. Nat Turner, come on thepodcast, guys. [laughter] Don't we seemlike a good hang?>> Look, we've we've insulted ourselvesjust as much as we've insulted you. So,it's like we're good. Uh [laughter]um that's something. You should wear uma white tank top more often. I thinkthat it brings out something special inyou. [laughter]>> Should I just go skimpier and skimpierwith each episode?[laughter]>> I just saw the flex on the shoulders.Congratulations. Um, it seems like, bythe way, for the past two years,everyone is commenting about on yourbody every single episode.>> That's great. Love it.>> Yeah. All right, keep it coming. Go toSpotify in India who is continuing tocomment on how how how much better Ilook and how how I'm getting in greatshape and it shows. Keep it up.
00:55:35It'sworking.>> PSA is going to grade you. [laughter]They're going to give you a they'regoing to give you a uh it's fine.>> Fair [laughter] condition.>> Yeah, that's fair. That's fair.Um All right. That's it. That's a pod.