A stranger blew my mind. Then I realised who he was!

00:00:00Well, I got to bleep this out, butand he's extremely multi-billionaire.>> Extremely multi-billionaire.>> Extremely. [laughter]>> Sam, I have here in front of mea letter that I need to read for you.So, I I open the mail and I see ainvitationlike this to a graduation. And I think,that's not my cousin, that's not mynephew. Who is this?Dear Shawn, my name is Quinton Wood.I've been listening to MFM forsince 2021. Over the last 5 years, youand Sam's podcast has made a huge impacton my life, shaping how I see the world,investing in stocks, my goals, my life.Your podcast brought me a lot of joy andhelped me through long runs and studysessions.You and Sam have directed my life forthe better, so thank you. I'm a highschool senior this year, and because ofthe profound impact you've made in mylife, I want to invite you to mygraduation and graduation party. Helives in He lives in Colorado. Thank youfor Thank you for taking the time toread this and everything you do. Keepmaking more episodes. Sincerely, QuintonWood, high school senior.Isn't this amazing?>> Baller.

00:01:13Congrats, Quinton.>> Take a bow, Quinton.>> [laughter]>> How good is that, man? I I love thiskid.>> If you're under the age of 24, youshould do some of these things thatmight sound insulting, like we saidthat's endearing or I would never saythat's cute, but like you feel like thatemotion.You should 100% embrace doing thosethings because you can only get awaywith this at a very for the very smalltime, and it's totally appropriate andtotally awesome.>> It's like pooping your pants. You canonly do it for so long. [laughter]>> Well, then we could do it like later inlife, but likeyou like this type of stuff 100% isawesome.>> And by By way,okay, a bunch of people have written butjust inviting to the high schoolgraduation is so endearing. I justthought. I was like, "Oh, that's so likeso wonderful." And Diego was like, "So,we're going to go?" I was like,"No, hell no. We're definitely notgoing." But but I I will play him thesong and and give him the clap. This isgreat.Okay, I want to tell you about this thisbusiness story that thatto me this is this is a billy of theweek. So, this is aa billionaire family that I I foundreally fascinating. I've been into theselike family dynasties. Last last week Ithink we were talking about Cargill. Andthis one is>> Wait, can I want

00:02:29to try and guess these?I like trying to guess.>> Let me give you a couple of clues so youknow which direction you're going.The richest man in Italy.>> Sunglasses or chocolate?>> Chocolate.>> Okay. [laughter]>> Do you know who it is?>> Yeah. IRoche Roche is it called Rochesomething? For for Ferrero Roche.>> Yeah.>> So,okay. Well, you got that pretty quick.>> [laughter]>> It's a lot less fun when you just knowthe answer, huh?If I was a teacher, I would just belike, "Well, fine. Teach yourself then."And walk out of the classroom.UmDude, this family story is amazing. So,I love Ferrero Roche the chocolate. Idon't know if you've like if do you're afan? Do we have Do we have one? Oh,here. So, if for those who don't know, Ihave some here.Got this from from the grocery storethis morning cuz I was so inspired bythese guys. I was like, "I'm going to gosupport their small business.">> [laughter]>> Yeah, you bought local.>> He's worth 32 billion dollars.Um so, the these chocolates are kind ofamazing. They're The packaging isamazing. If you've ever had one ofthese, you really feel like you'reeating something special. And that gotme kind of interested in like, "What'sthe back story of this?" Turns out thisfamily invented Nutella. They inventedTic Tacs. They invented like a wholebunch of Kinder the Kinder

00:03:44bars andKinder eggs. They invented like severalof these like really big things. And nowthey own a whole bunch of otherbusinesses. So, I want to tell you thatthe story of this this company that'sit's one of the most secretivefamily-owned businesses in the world.They do like $20 billion a year inrevenue. The founder is the the the mainguy that this the heir. He runs thecompany and is the richest man in Italy.And the way they did it is reallyfascinating. So,um back in the day this was post rightafter World War II, Italy, which waslike, you know, not in great shapepost-World War II,um it was trying to kind of bounce back.And so, this guy uh the grandfather uhof of this guy, he decides, "I'm goingto startum making chocolate." Chocolate wasreally expensive. It was like thisluxury item. It wasn't like a littlecommon thing you found at every store.Not everybody was eating it. And so, hestarts and he the he had the form factorwrong. He was trying to make a a barlike a a spread. So, it's like butter.It would be like this kind of hardchocolate like butter stick essentially.And his idea was like people would putthis on toast and you'll have like achocolatey toast.>> And I think at the time like chocolatewas like something like it was it waslike the equivalent of caviar. Like ifyou went to like a fancy dinner party,you would see it. And if I remembercorrectly, I don't even think it tasted

00:04:59nearly like it tastes now. It wasn'tlike>> They've just added butter and sugar overthe years to the mix. It's like cuz ifyou have like a cacao bean or cacaopowder, it's like bitter. It's like verybitter, right? So, so you you reallyhave to like butter and sugar it up. So,he he tries the bar. People don't likeit. They're complaining. They're like,"It's too hard. Doesn't spread easily."So, he's like, "Okay, I got to solve thespread problem." And he comes up with ajar with like a creamy chocolate, like aa jam basically. And it's like aprecursor to Nutella. It wasn't quiteNutella yet. Um but the idea was likemake it super spreadable, put it in ajar.And it was called Supercrema. And so, hestarts trying to sell Supercrema andit's doing okay. It's him he's like thechef and he's just trying to make likedelicious pastries basically. And he'sgot the brother who's the business side.And they're they're doing all right, notgreat. But, over time, the son takesover, And and the son is a bit more ofan innovator. So, first, I think thegovernment like bans the use of Crema inthe name, so he's got to rebrand itanyways, and he decides to call itNutella. Andit was hazelnuts are a big ingredientfor the thing, and he makes it he tweaksthe recipe, makes it better, and the sonstarts innovating. He gets in the lab,and he basically creates he notices thatbreath mints are great, but there's allthese problems. They come in these like

00:06:14big tins, hard to carry around, right?It's like big giant rectangle. To openit up, you had to like kind of find theseam and pop it open, and then, youknow, if you wanted to like share itwith somebody, they had to like digthrough, touch all of them. And so, hecreates the Tic Tac form factor. So, wayeasier to open, smaller box, smallerform factor, and the ads were all likeone person's hand out, and then puttinga Tic Tac in. And it was basically likea Tic Tac was almost like a social gift.It was a social icebreaker, somethingyou want from somebody else. So,carrying it was almost like a a thing ofpower.>> These old Tic Tac ads are so good. Ifyou Google vintage Tic Tac Italian ads,the old ads are like pretty awesome.>> A lot of the ads would have a questionmark, which you would not normally do.You wouldn't say, Tic Tac, questionmark, but the whole thing is basicallyit's an offer to somebody else. And umit's just a way to be smooth. Way way toIt's a It'sIt's small talk for the mouth.>> Was Tic Tac the original name?>> Hey, I want to tell you about somethingpretty cool. We have a database of allof the business ideas that have beendiscussed on this podcast. So, hundredsof episodes, the team at HubSpot wentthrough, they pulled out all the simple,relatable, interesting, profitable uhideas that we have brainstormed, andthey're all available for download forfree. Just click the link in thedescription below.

00:07:30Thank you to ourfriends at HubSpot for sponsoring thispodcast and putting together this freeresource for you guys. Back to the show.Yeah, so so Tic Tac was a, you know, abrilliant name also, and it startsgetting used in movies because the nameis just like fun to say. And um and thenhe he's like, you know, we've talkedabout Touchland soap, this this thiswoman who who sold this company for Ithink $800 million or somethingrecently. And what she does is she tookPurell like hand sanitizer, thisutilitarian ugly product, and she madeit look like women's perfume and it camein different scents and it was all handsanitizer, but you know, it's somethingsmall you'd want to carry in your inyour purse that looked cool, smelledgreat, and didn't have like, you know,change of justcompeted in a different dimension thanhand sanitizer. Not trying to kill moregerms per second, but say your handsaren't going to smell like ethanol atthe end of this, right? So So then thenyou have the the Ferrachet likepackaging where it's like this this, youknow, these golden nuggets, these likespecial things that are that are putinto this. And so just brilliant allaround in terms of like how they howthey did uh the marketing genius behindsome of these things. And so the brandtakes off. It's doing really reallywell. He's an innovator. And now they'resuper secretive. I think for likeup until

00:08:45four or five years ago they hadnever done an interview. They had neverlet anyone into the factory. It was likeon some real Willy Wonka They um,you know, it was like the one journalistwho got in was like, "This is actuallyless like Willy Wonka, it's more likeArea 51." There was armed guards. Theycuz they build their own machinery toproduce the the chocolate. So theydidn't want anyone to know theengineering behind their machinery, therecipes behind Nutella. They didn't wantto know anything and they weren't reallyeven using it for marketing purposes.Like the the grandfather it all thephotos of him you'll see he's wearingdark sunglasses. He just never wanted tobe seen, never wanted to be known. Andso it only very recently did they startdoing anything.And so then you have the grandson, thethird gen. And so gen so gen one waskind of likeum the pioneer trying to make it happen.It was sort of kind of like uh, youknow, pioneers or what what is settlersget pioneers get slaughtered then thesettlers do whatever then thetownspeople build the empire. It's kindof that same thing. So, you know, hedidn't really make it but the son hadthe breakthrough innovations and thenthat guy's sontook on a totally different strategy. Hewent Warren Buffett. He was basicallylike, all right, inventing theseproducts really hard, really expensive,really low hit rate. What if we went andfound value brands that we could turnaround? And so he went and boughtButterfingers

00:10:00and Baby Ruth and Crunchand like all these brands, acquiredthem, tried to revitalize the brand andthen bring them back. And so he's builtthis portfolio of other brands now andhe took like an M&A approach and I justthoughtwhat's the Italian word for privateequity? Cuz that's what these guys>> [laughter]>> This is some beautiful private equitythat I've been seeing in play here forthe last>> That is so cool.>> 80 years.>> [laughter]>> I bought a I bought a Butterfinger lastnight. I I freaking love Butterfinger. Ifeel old but I like I eat them.I did. I I bought the uh the>> and Sam having a Butterfinger or what?>> I went to the CVS and I got the themovie style. You know how they like putlike like movie style candy like in thebox with like mini Butterfingers. Itotally had a whole box to myself lastnight. So I'm on board with this guy.>> I don't like Butterfinger. Love Crunch.Uh Baby Ruth.By the way, not named after Babe Ruth.>> It's not?>> No. It's named after Ruth Cleveland,daughter of President Grover Cleveland.>> Oh, is Babe Ruth the baseball playernamed after her then?>> [laughter]>> I don't think so.>> Dude, you can't have two Babe Ruth Imean that's like there's not like>> [laughter]>> I don't know how they got away they gotaway with that. Uh this is

00:11:16this ispretty awesome. Why are youumfascinated by this this topic? Becauseit's a clearly a trend.>> Well, I have all these like themes. Soone is like huge businesses hidden inplain sight is always something that'sinteresting to me. So like, you know,I've been eating this but I never tookthe time to think "Who made this? What'sthe story of this? Why does thispackaging look [clears throat] sodifferent than any other product that inthe entire store? And why don't morepeople do this? Why isn't like like howcan you apply this marketing principleto another category? Like I just can'tbelieve people aren't doing that. Sothat immediately my brain starts firingand I start fantasizing about theseproducts I'm going to create before Iremember I'm already rich. I don't wantto work and I have just way too muchwork to do any of that, but if somebodyever did it, you know, like you know,kudos to them. And then I start thinkingabout>> Wait, really quick. UhRory Sutherland who we had on, he talkedabout uh what's the name of the sodathat has the piece of foil on top?You know, the Italian also Italianactually.>> Uhno.>> You're close. Pella something. It startswith a P and it's a>> that lemonade-y type thing, right?>> a lemon flavored Italian soda. Is it SanPellegrino? Okay. I thought SanPellegrino was also water, but this islike San Pellegrino like soda.>> Yeah.>> And he was explaining howthe tin over it, he's like that's areally small thing, but they did it tobe like this can is extra

00:12:31clean andspecial. It's>> Fresh when you>> Yeah.>> Pop in the seal.>> He was explaining the importance ofsomething fairly insignificant in thegrand scheme and how it and he wasexplaining the psychology behind it andand that really got me thinking andyou're you're describing the exact samething with the with the candy. It'swrapped in like a gold tin.And I was thinking about that a lot. Iguess it's another Italian companypulling it off.>> Yeah, so I love the marketing mind.That's always a fascinating thing. Ilove businesses in plain sight. I'malways a sucker for you know the richrich man in Italy and I'm like, "Suredon't." You know, tell me like this isthis going to be an interesting story.And then I am also interested in thesekind of family dynasty businesses umbecauseI I think it's the businesses thatreally likewithstand the test of time, they have todo like several miracles and one of thegreat miracles is that it has to getpassed down to somebody who doesn'tscrew it up. And what I thought was kindof cool, there was a story about one ofthe one of the generations. I don't knowif it's the current one.Um, by the way, I'm opening one of theseup. I don't know if it's the current oneor it's the the middle son, but he saidsomething like he didn't even realizethey were rich until he was like 15years old. He's like, "I had no idea."Uh, they kept that from me.>> [laughter]>> It's like the four housekeepers didn'ttip you off. Uh, so I don't know

00:13:46exactlyhow that was possible, but you know,that apparently there was something inthe upbringing where uh, I think theywere they just spent so much timeactually working in the like factory andand on the product that it wasn't clearlike it there was more about the workand the craft than it was about the theprizes.>> That's awesome. I would love to um, Ilistened to a the reason I know verylittle about it, but I know some aboutit is because um, Founders, the Founderspodcast, he did an episode on thefamily. And it's a pretty old one, so Ilistened to it a while ago. Uh, but itwould be curious I would be curious tosee like>> you ever like to listen to Founderswithout the research? MFM, we're herefor you.>> [laughter]>> While you're stuffing your face withfood, which is likethe that sounds great on a mic. Let mehear you chew.>> This 9:00 a.m. chocolate is hitting thespot.>> Um, dude, I had Sweethearts forbreakfast, so I feel you.>> fasting, but you intermittently eat aFerrero Rocher while [laughter] you'refasting.>> Uh, I would I want to know like thefamily dynamics. I'm so curious. I thinkthatlike the stories of Succession, the themovie or the TV show and like the drama,I don't think that is actually thecommon thing. I think that like there isa way where you could be like harmoniousand loving and also like good at thiswhole business thing. And I it's justless interesting to write or read aboutthat

00:15:01or make a movie or uh, TV showabout it.>> yeah.>> Yeah, [laughter]but it would be really exciting to likereada book on how they do it effectively.Uh, another family that don't that thatdid it effectively is the Rothschildfamily. Do you know about those guys?>> I mean, I just know the name. I don'tknow what they did in the family.>> Like there's a crazy story where theuh,like the the original clan so they'reknown now as like Illuminati-esque whereit's like mysterious but the originalstory is I believe they were in Germanyin the 1800s and the dad was intobusiness and banking and he had fivesons and he seemed very loving andrespectful with them and he purposelyasked them to go move when they becameadults to different countries and do thebanking trade that he was doing andteaching them and that is how theybecame this like amazingly successfulEuropean family but the kids were likeno he was he was a really loving guy helike he taught us good values and and welike doing this with them and and solike I've been reading a little bitabout the that family as well.>> Yeahit's I mean I don't know if I'm evergoing to do that but I did have a randomidea recently that I just kind of likefascinated me. So I was listening tosome interview withthe

00:16:16chef from Carbone and he saidsomething like the interview actuallywas a little bit boring but he said onething that I thought was was prettyinteresting he goesOh I was always obsessed with food I was12 years old and I wasabsolute foodie I was always watchingcooking shows I knew about everyrestaurant I knew I wanted to be a chef.And you know one of the greatest giftsthat nobody really talks about rightlike you want you want your kid to beyou know really good at school or reallygood at sports really whatever I meanreally one of the best things you can dois figure out what you actually love todo in life. The earlier you figure thatout that's actually the big advantageand so you know>> was Warren Buffett's advantage.>> It's Warren Buffett's it's everyone ifyou read these guys they you knowMr. Beast is like yeah at 12 I just at11 years old I decided I was going to bea YouTuber like I just wanted to be aYouTuber that's all I wanted to do andso from he's like yeah so I'm whateverhe is now 28 he's like yeah but I'mdoing this for 20 years he's like youknow it's like I've been doing this 17years now and so he's literally justspent more time on this than everyoneelse. Warren Buffett bought first stockat seven and basically was thinkingabout businesses, money, and stockssince he was very young. And and hadtime during that a golden window. Andand when I interviewed Monish Pabrai, hewas I was asking about these books onthe wall. He had a whole section on likescience and neuro neuroscience and

00:17:31psychology.And I go, "What's something you reallytook away from reading a bunch ofthese?" And he goes, "We have a certainhardwiringthat's kind of baked by the time you'resix or seven. Like your your corenature, your DNA. You kind of know whothat person is." But he goes, "Andthere's a golden window. And I think thegolden window was something like, youknow,six to 16 years old.And during that 10-year window,if you found something that's that youcan obsess over and you can umyou get free rein to actually obsessover it during that window, you willhyper-specialize when the brain is inthis certain period and you'll becomeworld-class. Like you're you're the restof your life happens and if you reallydon't And so he talks about this withinvesting. He's like, "I don't invest incompanies where the CEO doesn't have anevidence of the lemonade stand when theywere 10 or 11 because if you really Ifyou're an entrepreneur, you were anentrepreneur at an early stage." Now, Idon't 100% believe this, but I did thinkit's interesting and you do see thispattern a lot where>> have that? Did Monish have that?>> Uh yeah, so he I asked him that and hewas like He's like, "Yes." And he goes,"It wasn't for entrepreneurship. It wasbasically for likehis dad had a jewelry business or a goldbusiness or something like that." Hesaid, "Like basically my MBA was everyday my dad would

00:18:46come home and thebusiness was failing and me and mybrother had to figure out something wecould try to get this business to notfail, to have enough cash to be like inbusiness next month." And so in doingthat, he's like, "I basically got my MBAwhen I was eight years old every dayhelping my dad with his jewelrybusiness, working in the store, cominghome, hearing the problems, hearing theinventory struggles, the cash flowmanagement problem. If we have all thesesales, why don't we have any money? Oh,because there's a difference betweenrevenue and profit, between profit andcash flow. And you know, he's likelearning these things without knowingthe names of them. Like they're sort ofintuitive gut learning that's happeningduring that phase.>> And for the record, you don't need thatto be pretty successful. I do think>> But to be world class.>> Yes, I think that that's the advantagethat the best of the best of the besthave over>> see like oh, in the world a World Cupright now it is like um Lamine Yamal andit's like you what how come the USdoesn't produce players like this? Andit's like well, because at age seven hewould have moved in to the socceracademy and he was there from 7 to 17and guess what? He's amazing now at 18.You know, like [laughter]which which maybe your kid would havebeen too had they left the house andmoved in um you know, to the socceracademy at age six or seven and that'slike really all they trained and focusedon for a long period of time. Are youwilling to do that? Uh the book Outliersby Malcolm Gladwell talked a little bitabout this like you know,

00:20:01at a young ageBill Bill Gates and Paul Allen thefounders of Microsoft, their school wasthe first one of the only schools in thecountry to have a computer. So he got tomess around with the computerfor free at free access to it afterschool for like a very long period oftime. You know, Furkan my old co-founderhe would tell me like yeah, his dadworked at a computer company. So when hewas 5 years old like his earliest memorywasn't like playing catch with my dad.It was like building a printer fromscratch.It's like yeah, no no no joke that nowhe can like build anything um becauseduring that golden window he did that.Anyways, long way of sayingI've thought about how you could besomewhat intentional about this. Meaningif my kid shows an interest in somethingI think I'm going to lean in way harderthan most people would during the goldenwindow and I've thought about takinglike a sabbatical year where I'm justlike going to pluck him out of schoolfor you know, in fifth or sixth gradeand just be like hey, we're going totravel the world and like we're I'm justgoing to develop you. I'm going to shapeyou now not like when I'm 65 and Iretired and I have more time becauseyou're going to be the cookie's alreadycrispy by then. You know what I mean?Like I got to do it when the dough israw. And so, I'm thinking about that. Umdoes that sound crazy? Does that soundlike>> No. So, it's so funny. Um a friend formy birthday, a friend gifted me theAndre Agassi book that I haven't startedit yet.

00:21:17But, I was asking him what helearned. Uhhave you ever read that? Andre Agassi'shis biography. It's considered>> It's considered one of the bestbiographies and I'm not a tennis and myfriend and I, neither of us are tennisguys, but he's like it's it's so good.And I said, "What's the big takeaway?"And he was like, "The crazy thing isAndre didn't even seem like he lovedtennis. And he he frankly didn't seemlike he had superstar energy. Um like hekind of begrudgingly did it. Uh but, hewas pretty good." And I was like, "Well,how did he become like one of the greatsof all time?" And he said, "His dad. Hisdad was maniacal. His dad like his dadsaw that Andre showed a little bit ofinterest and he just pushed him and andjust went all in on it." And I wasjoking and I was like, "Okay, so maybehe maybe he did or didn't have a goodrelationship with his father. I'm notsure. But, I think that like these guyslike uh Serena Williams' dad, AndreAgassi's dad, like some of these harshfathers, I'm like they get a lot of but like it seems pretty worth it.Like to have this like tiger dad andthis tiger mom energy. And um I waswatching uh Nadal's uh uhdocumentary on Netflix. Did you see thatone?>> Uh I've seen a little bit of it. Yeah. Ilove Nadal. I love Nadal.>> his dad was the same way. His father wasso hardcore about it and he pushed himand pushed him and pushed him and washis coach.

00:22:32And then there's this otherguy named Sebastian Coe, who's a famousrunner. So, you know, not not that manypeople are going to know who he is, buthe's he had the world record for themile and his dad, Peter, was the sameway where they would run and his fatherwould be in the car with a stopwatchtiming every interval.>> Behind every great man is a great woman.It's like, "And an abusive father.">> Yeah.>> [laughter]>> I do think that there's a way that youcan do this where you can like balancelike being a good a good nurturer andalso a pusher.>> clarify one thing. I'm not saying I'mgoing to like hypertrain them forgreatness on like, you know, hey, getup, we're running sprints every morning.Like, you know, whatever up the hills.What I meant was really I'm going togive them exposure cuz I think mostpeople the problem isn't that you foundwhat you loveand then you didn't keep doing it. Cuzwhen you really love something, it has agreat amount of pull. You just do itanyways. I think what most people don'tdo is they don't really get to walkaround Costco and sample the things. AndI think that's actually the moreinteresting thing is like, how do youget somebody exposure because I wouldsay the vast majority of people nevereven find out if they really lovesomething cuz by the time you likeschool is such a regimented track,right? You're spending 8 hours a daydoing the same exact things as everyother kid. Did you happen to lovephotosynthesis? Did you happen to lovetrigonometry? Like, probably not. Andso,

00:23:47by the and then and then it's alljust funneling you to get into acollege. When you get into a college,it's about getting a job.By the time you have a job, now you'reworking and you're trying to likepay for life. And by the time you're 30,you're like, well, I didn't really getthat one that that opportunity to gofigure out that actually it waspodcasting that I really had an affinityto. I actually really loved that. Or itwas, you know, whatever it is. Like,baking. It was this. It was that. Itdoesn't really it's hard to even know.And I think most people never even know.And so, the thing I want to make sure Ido for my kids isget you to at least feel and see whatdifferent what the world is. What arewhat's even on the menu of options sothat you have some exposure in life cuzI don't think the world by default doesa good job of giving you exposure.>> You and I have a great friend, Ramon.So, Ramon van van Meer. And umhe Ramon had a difficult situation wherehe became a single dad when his son wasonly 2 years old.And I met Victor when he was, I think,3. Now, he's actually a sophomore orjunior in college. And umheRamon was crazy. Um partly he did thisout of necessity, partly because he's areally amazing dad. And he would bringVictor, starting at the age of maybeseven, to these really big businessmeetings. I remember he sold one companywhen Victor

00:25:03was something like 10 yearsold. He sold it for close to $10million,and I remember he would go to LA fromSan Francisco, and he would take Victorout of school and bring him. And Victorwould just sit like next to him, andVictor wouldn't talk, but he wouldpay attention to the meeting, andafterwards Ramon would be like, "Victor,what's your opinion? What should we do?"Um and then another time, Victor hasactually been to China.I think a couple times because Ramon hasa company now, Afina, where they havemanufacturers in China, and he'll bringhim to China, and he'll just sit quietlyand be like,"Afterwards, Victor Ramon would be like,'Hey, okay, so what do you think? Youthink this guy is legit? Should we gowith him? Should we do this?'" And Iremember seeing that, and before I hadkids, I thought it was awesome. And thenafter I had kids, I thought it was likea blessing, a treasure. I like itchanged from like this is cool toadmiration.To like you have gone from being a gooddad to a deity to me. Like you are likeI can't believe how special and howlucky Victor is to have you. And Iremember seeing that, and I'm like,"That is the way to have a kid.">> I I agree 100%. Seen the same thing. HeRamon is an amazing dad, andit's not just I I thinkcuz I watched that, and in the momentyou're just kind of like, well, theif a kid is there, didn't say

00:26:18anything,or maybe even after that, "What do youthink?""It was good. It was cool." They're notgoing to give you some satisfying answeras a dad like"You know, Dad, I really learned thelike the virtue of hard work today.Actually, what I saw was they're nevergoing to tell you the thing, but likeyou just have to trust the process andbe like it's all soaking somewhere,somewhere in the mind this experiencewas imprinting somewhere in the brain ina positive direction, and that if they,you know, if I didn't give them thisexperience, I would have in in a wayrobbed them of of some of that exposure.So yeah, I'm a I'm a big believer inthat. My kids are really little rightnow, but I I do similar things.">> That's awesome. Okay, let me tell youanother story about someone. You and I,we get invited to some stuff thatoccasionally is interesting. Most of thetime, we both say no, but I decided togo to one of these dinners, and it wasin a beautiful apartment, and clearlysome guys there were like total ballers.But I sit next to this one guy,and he's very unassuming, and I starttalking to him, and he's very nice. He'skind of like Dharmesh Shah, the the oneof the founders of HubSpot, like verylow-key. He's like, "How are you usingAI?" And I'm like, "Well,I made a Chrome plug-in that helps youselect like which jeans fit you if yougo to a store, if you like jeans.">> John, look at my ass right now.[laughter]Tell me that these don't fit like

00:27:33fitlike they were fitted by AGI. Threecities don't have water right nowbecause these pants fit so well.>> [laughter]>> And uhI was like, "How about you?""What are you doing?" And he like startsexplaining some stuff,and it's kind of blowing my mind, andI'm like, "Wait, who are you?" And hesays his name, but he doesn't really saywhat he does. And the guy runs maybe oneof the most, if not like the top threelike financial services business in theworld, and he'sextremely multi-billionaire.And he's the founder of>> Extremely multi-billionaire.>> Yeah, extremely. Like, [laughter]he's so extreme, and I thought I afterhe I start talking to him like, "Irecognize you. You have articles writtenabout you. It's where it's like thismysterious billionaire.">> Wait, say his name, and then we'll bleepit.>> Okay, so he's the founder of>> Yes. Okay.>> So, one of the most like sophisticatedfinancial services business, arguablypotentially some of the one of the mostprofitable in its field, making liketens of billions in profit.>> That's that's almost an intimidatingperson to meet. It's almost like, haveyou ever Do you You know, I used to havethis old Dell laptop that when it reallywhen you when you opened up a few toomany windows, the fan would kick on, andit would start heating up. I feel likethat dude's brain must just be likethat. Is was there just heat exhaustcoming off of them?

00:28:48>> I'm I'm closer to a homeless guy interms of like accomplishments and brainpower than I am to this guy. And it wasso awesome that this guy walked intothis room. He was one of the most quietguys. He probably talked the leastamount.>> you describe his calves and stuff, whatdid he say about AI? He said he wasblowing your mind a little bit. What didhe say?>> Uh I have to be somewhat vague. He wassaying He was just explaining like howthey do it for like trading and likemaking financial decisions. But hefrankly he was using He clearly wastrying to talk my level, but it was sohard without using like the jargon thathe had to use. But like at one point Iwas like, "So, is your company cool? Uhwhy is it cool?" Uh he's like, "Well,I think we have a good culture. We payreally well, and uh the office is nice."And I look up how much they pay, andit's like the highest paying thing>> in the world, yeah.>> in the world.>> they have the most profit per employeeor something. It is like crazy crazynumbers like that. Did they say anythingwith AI that surprised you, meaninglike, "Oh, I just did I didn't realizethat was possible, or I would have neverthought to do that." Is Give me a littlebit more if you can if you can break offone more piece of bread.>> Well, what what he was he what he wasexplaining, he was like, "You know,we've actually have been doing thisbefore like it became popular. We weredoing it in this particular way, andthen all this new breakthroughtechnology came out, but it wasn't likea surprise to us cuz we've beentinkering with this stuff."

00:30:04Andbasically he was like, "It helps us makedecisions like within fractions andfractions and fractions of seconds."Like he was using these timemeasurements that I didn't I I didn'teven know what that word meant. And hewas like he he he was like explaininglike how they make decisions and howthey use AI to make decisions. And um hewas like, "Yeah, like we've had datacenters. We've had all of this stuffbefore. Now it's more accessible, andit's easier cuz we But he's like, "Webuilt all this stuff before." It wasjust like crazy that someone that is soepic and so world-class at what they do,they made me feel He made me feel betterthan him in a weird way.>> So, he's a great actor, too, then.>> Yeah. [laughter]>> Wow, triple threat.>> Well, that's why I didn't want to beinsulting. I don't think he was acting.I I think that he like he made me he wasmaybe feel good.>> Well, he he had true true charisma thenin that he was genuinely interested inother people, not based off of like, youknow, some weird power rankings. Andwhen you're interested in people, thatmakes them feel great. And that's agift. That's a that's an amazing gift. Ithink it sounds so simple and very fewpeople know how to do that.>> And I've noticed that with a bunch ofreally successful people, the ones thatI truly like, they are so curious. Theyare curious to the point where they willuh think about silly ideas veryseriously and take them serious.

00:31:19>> Yeah, uhI had a embarrassing like reduction theother day where I was like describing atwe went to an event or we hosted anevent and it was like, "Oh, there's allthese different people. I like thisperson. Oh, I really like this guy. ThatOh, she was really cool." And then Irealized, "Oh, what's the commonfactor?" It's just like I think I likepeople who like me. And I was soembarrassed by that being true, but itwas really like theI have a very hard time liking peoplewho I don't feel like me. So, theopposite is more true than the than thefirst part, meaning like I don't loveeverybody who likes me, but I can'treally like anybody if I feel like theydon't like me. And I was I was like,"What kind of junior highmindset is this?" And I didn't know whatto do with it, but I definitely had thatawareness at least. And I was like, "Ithink I should not have that be thekind of the heaviest weight,>> [laughter]>> you know, factor in in this stuff." Doyou Do you ever do that? It sounds sostupid as I said it aloud.>> No, I mean I don't think that's sostupid. I I think that Dale Carnegie,How to Win Friends and Influence People,he says, "The root of everything thatyou read from me is basically peoplewant to feel important." And if youunderstand that, then like life's creamcheese. Like life's good. And if youmake people feel important, then thenthat is how you win friends andinfluence people. And what's funny isthis guy and I we left the

00:32:34uh the theevent together. And we mistakenly tooklike a service elevator. And so we getlost in this building for like 25minutes like trying to get out becausewe took the wrong and we couldn't figureout the signs. And I'm like>> Were you like, "Come on, genius. Get usout of here." [laughter]>> I was like, "How many billionaires doesit take to find the exit?">> Be Superman. Turn on the laser.>> [laughter]>> And and then at the end I was likeI I know that like no one can findphotos of you on the internet. I knowthat you purposely stay off the grid,but uh you know, likewant to come on my First Million? And helikeAnd he even dignified it with a "I'llconsider it." There wasn't even like alike, "Are you insane? No, I I won't dothis."And I just think that like to all theup-and-comer up-and-comers listeninglike Quinton, be humble and be nice andmake people feel important. And that islike kind of a key to life.>> Well, we we should tweak that, right?Cuz the make people feel importantsounds a manipulative. What's the realWhat's the way to do that that'sactually real? I would say, be curious.If you're genuinely curious orinterested in in people, curiosity'slike one of these um you know, likethose like grandma's remedies where it'slike, "Oh, I have uh pneumonia." Andit's like, "Put some whiskey in thepancakes and that'll do it." It's like,"What? That doesn't make any sense." Andthen it like works.

00:33:49It's curiosity'skind of like that where almost all theseunrelated problems can be solved withcuriosity. I'll give you an example.Um one is what one is what we're talkingabout here, which is when you're whenyou're actually curious about somebody,you will appear interested in thembecause you are interested in them andthen they feel interesting and they feellike you took an you know, because youtook an interest in them, they uh feelan affinity towards you. Great, that'sone. You this works with yourself, too.So a lot of times I I'll talk to my mytrainer, my coach. And um let's say I'mfeeling bad about something. What mostpeople try to do is they say, "Don'tfeel bad. Feel good. It's okay." Andlike don't feel bad is pretty pooradvice when you're feeling bad aboutsomething. And instead he just sayslike, "Don't feel bad, just getcurious." And he's like, "Just get leaninto it. Like, get curious about it.What is that? Why do you feel that way?You know, um hm, has it ever happenedbefore?" And as soon as you startgetting curious, it's almost like thecloud moves away, the sun starts to peerthrough, and cuz your brain literallyshifts state into a into a morechildlike curious state of mind, and ittakes the edge off. It takes the guiltor the shame or the the theself-loathing off of whatever it isyou're doing. It's so so weird. Youwould never expect curiosity to be acure for for some some of these moments,of these moods, but it

00:35:05is. It tends tobe. And so, just getting curious aboutsomething I I would say is a is kind oflike a catch-all,um you know, cure for for for things.>> And what's funny is like I was a prettyawkward teenager. I would say I'm stilla pretty awkward guy. Uh and I like wentand like read books on like goodquestions to ask people to like have aconversation. And I even follow theseguys on Instagram how to do it. But thebest people I found was that show on thespectrum, the dating show with autisticthe kids. And I stole so many questionsthat I ask people. So, if I'm like atlike a dinner party or I'm talking topeople, I will always say, "What areyour hobbies?"And like it sounds like such a childishthing. You get the best answers. Andthen I also say, um"What do your parents think of of whatyou've done?" Or I ask a lot about theirparents. And like they start opening up.But like I had to like learn how to likehave small talk.>> [laughter]>> Yeah, everybody needs to, I think. Okay,I like that. That's a cool That's a coolstory. Can I umcan I take it a totally differentdirection?>> All right, I could talk to you. Let metalk to you about something. Um it it'sgoing to sound sad, and it is sad, but Ithink it's like really interesting. Anduh I I have permission to talk aboutthis, but I think it's cool. So, you andI had a producer named Ben Wilson. BenWilson

00:36:20uh was our producer for My FirstMillion for a long time.And he now has a podcast called How toTake Over the World. Uh he's got fourkids under the age of 5 years old. It'scrazy. And 6 weeks ago he found out thathe has stage four lung canceruh wherethe odds are not in his favor, but he'sgot like the best doctors in the world.So, like some crazy things might happen.He's very optimistic. But, I went andmet with him yesterday. He he's in NewYork to see a doctor.And I wanted to talk about my experiencegetting to like like talk to him cuzthis is like a very like interestingpredicament that he's in. Think aboutthis. 6 weeks ago he found this out. So,in the 6 weeks he moved his house. Hesold his home and got a new home closerto the doctor that he's going.Uh he did like a $400,000 fundraiser,which was amazing. He like got his willand all of his estate stuff together.And he's gone to like all these umlike doctors' appointments, like so manyof them. And I remember like talking tohim yesterday. And I was like, "Dude,you've gone through so much. Like thisis so heavy." And I And he was tellingme a little bit about it. And I Myinitial reaction when I heard all this,I felt like extreme sadness. Partiallybecause Ben's a Mormon. So, Ben has lungcancer and it's in his spine and in hisbrain. But, it started as lung cancer.

00:37:35And he has never smoked. He has neverdrank. He has really never done anythingbad in his life. Uhand I felt like I felt like uh like wehave an agreement with the universewhere we put good in and we should getgood out. And I was like, "Thisagreement has been broken." And I feltlike pretty like pissed about it. And IYeah, I felt very angry. But, then likeI started like seeing how he wasreacting to all this stuff. And like Iwould put myself in that shoes. I'mlike, "All right. 6 weeks agoin June I find out that I have thisillness. Like how do I react?" And I waslike, "I would be I would go insane. I Iwould be so sad. I'd be so depressed."It was just like crazy how calm he was.And what's interesting is that Ben has apodcast called How to Take Over theWorld, which is about like how greatleaders become great.And I was thinking about that. And hehad this uh journal with him. And it wason the title of this journal was zero to365.And I was like, "What's this?" He waslike, "I have a journal where I'm goingto document every single day, and mygoal is to fill this whole thing out.It may not happen, but I'm going to workmy hardest to fill this out and make it365 days, and I pray that there's asequel to this journal so my kids canlike read this. But if I can't do it andI meet my maker sooner than I intend toor

00:38:50I want to, I'm going to be reallyexcited about it. And I remember likethinking like I listen to his podcastall the time on like how to be great,and I listen to all these podcasts onhow to be great. We just did one on likehow to be great. And I was thinking, Iwas like,"What's crazy is how much dignity andintegrity and bravery this guy is facingthis."And I was like, "Me or you or hopefullyand everyone listening, the odds arethat none of us will face like a tragedylike this." But I was thinking, I waslike, "In my day-to-day life, like Ireact to things sometimes in such ahorrible way, like so negativelyand uh so like not being positive or I'mletting little things bother me orlittle things distract me from what'simportant."But I was like, "I really should changethat because I hope I never faceanything like he's facing." But whatI've noticed knowing Ben for a few yearsis he's always been like a pretty stoicbrave person. And I'm like, "Theselittle things that I face every singleday, they can prepare me for somethinghorrible, and I hope that horrible thingnever happens.And if it doesn't, at least I will havelike responded to like my day-to-daylife in a way that a great man would."Because what's interesting is likeseeing him like journal about this, andhe was like show me a little of thejournal. In my head, I was like, "I'mseeing like a great man be

00:40:05great in realtime and respond to like the worst thingon Earthin the most dignified, wise, and likethe best way I've ever seen." And itinspired me so much, and I was justlike, what good can I take from this?How can I be great even if I don't facelike a tragedy or like if I just live aboring life? Like how could I be greaton a day-to-day basis?>> Wow. Yeah. That's a great I mean I'mthat's a great way of putting it. Umcouple of things that came up.The first is, you know, if you haven'tlistened already, go listen to hispodcast where he announced it. I mean II listened to that I probably listenedto that two or three times. I listenedthe first time I myselfI listened a second time when my mom wasin the car cuz I wanted her to hear cuzI just thought his entire attitudetowards the situation, towards what is,you know,a very devastating sort ofpiece of news. It it is is you haveevery right to be sad. You have everyright to be bad. You have every everyright to feel, you know, any of thefeelings you want to feel and he kind ofhad such a different perspective. Itmade me think a couple of things. Thefirst was, man,um you know, I haven't been a religiouspersonin my life andI think it's cuz

00:41:21the way my, you know, just my my logicalbrain is sort of like, "Well, I don'tknow. There's no evidence." You know,like there's like literally like thedefinition of likefaith is kind of like believing withoutevidence and I've always respectedreligion but I've never felt it. Um butwhen I saw his response and the way hewas like, you know, "I'm excited to meetmy maker and if you know, if God'scalling me then that's you know, the wayit was serving him." I was like, "Wow,this is thethis is the these are the rewards forliving with like such strong faith isthat even when the worstnews hits, even when and when anybodyelse would feel, you know, sorry forthemselves,um you know, he he took it very verydifferently and it was like such afoundational thing for him. So I was>> He said I'm excited. He told me and Ithink he said in the pod he goes, "I'mHe goes, can be excited about this." AndI thought that was like>> Yeah, that's uncommon. Unbelievable. Umso, I thought that was the first thingthat was like really highlighted likethe virtue and the value of like being aperson of faith and how like, you know,I'vein my own life notI've had the luxury of not having tohave that cuz life goes pretty wellwithout it for me, right? Like withouthaving to to have faith in in certainthings.Um so, I thought that was that thatreally stood out. The second

00:42:36wasI think you nailed it. The difference,you know, his pod- podcast is aboutNapoleon and Caesar and thesecomplicated men who achieve, whoconquered. I think, you know, it's howto take over the world. It's aboutconquerors. It's about the the worldshapers.And there's a big difference betweenachieving greatness and being great.What Ben is doing right now isgreatness, but it's being great, notachieving something. And I think there'sa huge difference and I thinkfor myself and most people that we don'treally split those out.And it it's very easy to set goals and,you know, I remember being young andbeing like, I want to be Forbes 30 under30. This was before it became like, youknow, theFBI watchlist. But I remember thinkinglike, that would be a great achievement.I want to have a million dollars in mybank account. I want to have this. Iwant to have that. When I was like 19,20 years old. And it's like it was allabout achieving. And the two peoplewe've talked about, Ramon and Ben,they're great examples of being great.Living day-to-day in a great way. He'sreally showing his greatness uh youknow, in in the hardest time, which iswhen when it when it when it matters,when it counts, when it's real.And then yeah, like, you know,I just hope that there's something, youknow, in the maybe the age of AI, maybethere's somesome way that, you know, with the bestdoctors, with the

00:43:51tech, with the belief,with everything that um you know, hedoes all right.>> Yeah, and he's he's he's um he um helike the Brian Johnsons and AndrewHubermans of the world, like they likeopened up the Rolodex and they put himin touch with all these people and he'sdoing all this like the traditionalstuff and some experimental stuff andyesterday he was like I feel reallygood. I feel better than I have in along time.>> Yeah. So, um>> Uh it's looking good, but I the reasonwhy I wanted to bring this up on MyFirst Million because I don't think wesay this this explicitly enough, but wehave said it before. Which iswe talk about like being rich here andwe try to say a rich life and we tryhard to like let people know that thisisn't just about money. It's just It'sIt's aboutdefining what life is um worth livingand how it how it can be rich for you.And I just want to reiterate that likethe million in My First Million doesn'tnecessarily mean dollars, but it meanslikethe first like unit of richness that youcan have in your life. And sothat's sort of my public serviceannouncement, but also like some of thethings that I've learned in talking withhim.>> Mhm.Well, I'm glad you shared that. Uh Ben,we're rooting for you, man. Uh

00:45:06Yeah, he's part of the he's part of theMFM family. He was He was our producerfor what? Like a year a year or two?Something like that.>> Yeah.>> He had his podcast and we met We metthrough you You put me on his podcast.You were like, "Dude, I've beenlistening to this thing. It's amazing."Then I remember going to the airportand I was listening to his Edisonepisode.And it's a three-parter and I drove tothe airport, listened to part one,drove back, listened to part two,and then I just went for an extra driveto listen to part three. And I was like,"Wow, this is amazing." And I called himand I was like, "Dude, who are you?What's your story?" And then we broughthim in, he became our producer, whichhelped him pay the bills while he wasgetting his podcast kind of like moreand more off the ground, then it wastime for him to kind of like focus onhis pod. We wished him well andyou know, still wishing him well. So,Ben, get get well, man. We uh we're allrooting for you.>> Yes, it was a very the I hope listener,I hope you don't take this as sad andI'm sure Ben's going to hear this, butit wasthe I I I I want to leave on a on a on ainspirational note not not sadness. So Ihope you guys dug it and we'll endthere. That's it. That's the pod.